"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot)
04/24/2016 at 07:26 • Filed to: Junkyard, maintenance, Michigan
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"zeontestpilot" (zeontestpilot)
04/24/2016 at 07:26 • Filed to: Junkyard, maintenance, Michigan | 3
| 25 |
A special thank you to MontegoMan for helping me out with bleeding the brakes. Although he did most of the work, and I just repeatedly pressed the pedal, I did learn a lot on how the brakes work and operate, which is just as important imho. Seriously, I never would have guessed the brake fluid helps build up pressure.
Also, MontegoMan thinks the brake fluid probably has never been done on this car, which makes me double glad we did a full flush.
Now the curious part, after a full flush, at first I didn’t notice any difference in braking. It wasnt until I got on the highway that I actually noticed it (admittedly, my full 40 minute commute is usually >50 mph, I’m not used to slow speeds). But the difference is a quicker reaction in nanoseconds, and the brakes act a tad firmer (or perhaps, it would be more appropriate to say it feels like there is more pressure now); the changes are subtle but there. Still, it’s a full flush, and that’s good. It does give me a peace of mind.
Thanks again MontegoMan!
jimz
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 07:56 |
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Seriously, I never would have guessed the brake fluid helps build up pressure.
o_O
beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
> jimz
04/24/2016 at 08:08 |
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A lot of people think they’re cable operated. (still)
Gotta start somewhere, here’s to more mechanical knowledge being shared.
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jimz
> beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
04/24/2016 at 08:09 |
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A lot of people think they’re cable operated. (still)
O_O
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zeontestpilot
> beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
04/24/2016 at 08:10 |
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You mean like how bike brakes are? That's the only thing I can think of that uses a cable to brake....
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zeontestpilot
> jimz
04/24/2016 at 08:15 |
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Yeah, it makes sense though, it needs the pressure to apply the brakes. Though when I bought the fluid I was curious on how little was in the bottle when it’s suppose to last a few years. The answer, it keeps using the same fluid, it doesn’t lose any.
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/brakes.html
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jimz
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 08:22 |
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the nice thing about using hydraulics for brakes is that they give you force amplification. you have a small piston in the master cylinder which (when you step on the pedal) moves a fairly long distance. The pressure in the lines then acts on a much larger piston (or pistons) in the caliper which moves a very short distance but applies much more force to the pads/rotors based on the ratio of the master cylinder/caliper piston sizes.
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zeontestpilot
> jimz
04/24/2016 at 08:24 |
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Nice! It seems I have more research to do, :).
Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 08:53 |
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There’s also the booster. The big round thing between your brake pedal and the master cylinder amplifies the pedal force
shop-teacher
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 08:58 |
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Firm brakes good!!
Urambo Tauro
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 09:58 |
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So I take it everything sent smoothly with the bleeders?
leicester
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 10:57 |
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Bled the brakes in this. It’s been sitting idle for a bit, so lost a lot of fluid through leaky 50+ year old seals. Took a half quart. Pretty easy, lift the box to get to the cylinder and rear drums. Front drums out in the open.
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zeontestpilot
> Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
04/24/2016 at 13:26 |
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Yeah, MontegoMan mentioned that too, because his Montego didn't have it, :).
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zeontestpilot
> Urambo Tauro
04/24/2016 at 13:29 |
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There was air in the line, plus it took a loooong time to bleed the farthest line.
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Urambo Tauro
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 14:09 |
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At least they opened for you. Having air in the system is no good.
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jimz
> Urambo Tauro
04/24/2016 at 17:55 |
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ah yes, the agony of the broken bleeder screw.
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jimz
> zeontestpilot
04/24/2016 at 17:56 |
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I’ve mostly seen hydraulic brakes on bikes anymore. I know some of the cheaper Japanese cruisers still use rear drum brakes actuated by a pushrod. My V-Star 250 has a mechanical rear drum. pretty much the most useless brake ever.
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Urambo Tauro
> jimz
04/24/2016 at 18:22 |
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Agony is a good word for it! Great way to ruin a simple brake job...
You get to choose between trying to extract that sucker, or buying a whole new/reman unit.
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zeontestpilot
> jimz
04/25/2016 at 05:53 |
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See, now I’m curious; define useless. I’ve read that drum brakes last a long time, and besides looking horribly on the wheel, have a good amount of advantages. That or I'm really confused, lol.
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jimz
> zeontestpilot
04/25/2016 at 06:42 |
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There are a few different designs for drum brakes. Non-servo, single leading shoe, twin leading shoe, and duo-servo (self-energizing.). The rear brake on my Yamaha is a simple non-servo, tiny drum brake. When I step on the pedal, it actuates a pushrod which turns a cam inside the drum and pushes the shoes into contact with the inside surface of the drum. Pretty simple, but I call it useless because the brake is so small it can’t do much.
Up through the ‘70s a lot of cars had drum brakes at all four wheels, and man, what pieces of shit. See, cars typically used duo-servo/self-energizing drums. The way the work is the shoes are held down to the backing plate and anchor pin with springs so they can move around a bit. The shoes are connected together at the bottom by a link pin. When you step on the brake, the wheel cylinder pushed outward, and the shoes contact the drum. Then, friction means the drum tries to “drag” the shoes around with it, causing the leading shoe to actually force the trailing shoe into pushing harder on the drum, increasing braking force.
It sounds all well and good, but that same self-energizing feature has some big downsides. One, it means that these drum brakes are prone to locking up, and can be hard to modulate. Two, brake drums are fairly thin castings and shoes are usually made of relatively thin stamped steel. Under long or repeated braking, they don't have the mass to absorb and dissipate heat, so they're also prone to a hard-pedal fade; you step on the pedal, the pedal is firm, but the brakes are overheated and can't stop the car effectively. Third, the harder you try to stop, the harder the shoes push against the drum, and the drum flexes and tries to expand, reducing braking effectiveness. Lastly, if you drive through more than a few inches of water and any gets inside the drum, count on almost no brakes until the water clears out.
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zeontestpilot
> jimz
04/25/2016 at 07:09 |
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That makes sense. On my in-laws property there’s a ‘67 mustang that is hidden in a garage because ‘the brakes locked’ 20 years ago or something like that. Now it actually makes sense why, :).
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jimz
> zeontestpilot
04/25/2016 at 07:19 |
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I've seen multi-axle gravel hauling semi trucks lock up every single wheel in a panic stop.
MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> zeontestpilot
04/25/2016 at 09:33 |
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Glad to help and even happier that it actually improved the pedal feel once you got going!
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> Urambo Tauro
04/25/2016 at 09:43 |
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Front passenger was not happy about opening but it certainly wasn’t bad enough to pull the whole bleeder screw out. The other 3 popped right open (surprisingly)
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zeontestpilot
> MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
04/25/2016 at 12:13 |
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Yeah, I'm noticing it more often now. I guess driving the same roads all the time helps to see the difference, :).
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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
> zeontestpilot
04/25/2016 at 12:40 |
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good, there’s nothing worse than not trusting your brakes.